This guy nails it!
Mike Spindell
Bigotry, Hubris, Politics, Video
America, Aristocracy, Authoritarian, Beliefs, Bullying, Change, Civil Liberties, Conformity, Democracy, Elite, Entertainment, Fascism, Feudalism, Freedom, Human Rights, Inequality, Law Enforcement, Mainstream Media, Mythology, Politics, Propaganda, Prosecution, Race, Racism, Rule of Law, Society, Tea Party, Trump, Wealth
121 thoughts on “For Those Who Love Trump”
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ElephantTail 
July 13, 2016 at 3:17 pm
Interestingly, I am less perturbed by Trump’s anti-Muslim stance than I am by the Republicans’ longstanding policy of islamophobic dog whistling. There is a clownish thing to Trump that allow people, Muslims, to feel less targeted. When Ted Cruz says it, or other elected officials, then it actually sounds as scary as it is.
I often cringe more when I hear Obama and Hillary attempt to defend Muslims by breaking them up into groups, or speaking of Islam as distinct from Muslims, or speaking of Muslims as worthy only if they embrace American exceptionalism and dedicate themselves to helping and supporting the same system that is targeting and massacring them across the globe.
Trump is saying outloud what is already American domestic and foreign policy, and at least with that, as BFM says, it allows for dissenting voices to respond.
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July 13, 2016 at 5:51 pm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/historians-donald-trump_us_578644dee4b03fc3ee4e9da7?section=“Ron Chernow, who wrote the biography of Alexander Hamilton that inspired the hit Broadway musical “Hamilton,” said the Trump campaign disturbed him more than “any other presidential campaign in our history.”
“I’m disturbed by the words missing from the Trump campaign: Liberty, justice, freedom and tolerance,” Chernow said. “The only historical movement that Trump alludes to is a shameful one: America First,” he said, referring to Trump’s foreign policy slogan, which shares its name with an anti-Semitic group from the 1940s.
Robert Caro, who has written extensively on strong-willed public figures like Lyndon Johnson and Robert Moses, called Trump a “demagogue” who appeals to the ugliest parts of human nature.
“History tells us we shouldn’t underestimate him,” Caro said. History is full of demagogues and sometimes rise to the very heights of power by appealing to things that are unfortunately a part of human nature: racism, which I think is a part of human nature no matter how hard we try, and excessive virulent patriotism that goes by the name xenophobia.” “
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July 13, 2016 at 6:07 pm
Trump is a demagogue and a buffoon. But, people like him expose the dark side of others as well. Notorious RBG is being taken to the wood shed by her fellow justices, Dems, and even the NYT was sympathetic to Trump after RBG got off her meds and was incredibly unprofessional. She needs Nino to keep her in line.
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July 13, 2016 at 6:48 pm
“Trump is a demagogue and a buffoon. But, people like him expose the dark side of others as well.”
Franky,
You seems quite similar to Donald Trump. One of you is a clown, a buffoon, has a narcissism born of insecurity and is a liar…..and the other is Donald Trump. The difference is that he is more successful than all of his wives.
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July 13, 2016 at 9:05 pm
I am living in your head, Tail Gunner. And I am similar in getting people to reveal their dark side. I’ve been doing it here the last few days. But, you are an easy mark.
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July 13, 2016 at 10:29 pm
Of all the years spent online on blogs and forums, I have yet to see the like of this Franky guy! This is incredible!
Mike, a post is overdue that consists solely of a thorough psychoanalysis of this fellow. Aren’t you entertained, they ask!
I certainly am! 🙂
Frank, you have good points sometimes…if only you would stop telling people what they are thinking … and doing it so obnoxiously…seems to betray a lack of confidence in your own arguments.
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July 14, 2016 at 12:34 pm
Looks like Trump is choosing the very anti- gay Pence as his vp.
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July 14, 2016 at 4:52 pm
Katrina vandenHeuvel Verified account
@KatrinaNation
Seems tailor-made for Trump: Indiana Gov. Mike Pence sued over decision to block Syrian refugees
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July 14, 2016 at 6:03 pm
Katrina vandenHeuvel @KatrinaNation 32m32 minutes ago
“Trump pick Pence is a Paleocon, Limbaugh-loving, Koch-connected member of GOP rightwing establishment / ” Not much of a chance of attracting Bernie voters now.
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July 14, 2016 at 7:35 pm
Matthew Yglesias @mattyglesias 1h1 hour ago Washington, DC
Pence would add valuable gay-bashing ballast to a ticket that is overweight on racial demagoguery and religious bigotry.
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July 15, 2016 at 10:17 am
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691895/He-drank-alcohol-ate-pork-took-drugs-NOT-Muslim-Truck-terrorist-Mohamed-Lahouaiej-Bouhlel-s-cousin-reveals-unlikely-jihadist-beat-wife-NEVER-went-mosque.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline Killer appears to be another weaponized wife beater.
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July 15, 2016 at 11:23 am
“weaponized wife beater”
I may have to borrow that one sometime.
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July 15, 2016 at 10:29 pm
I blame Christians. And when are we going to have truck controls and limits on gasoline. He had a full tank and a huge truck. If not killed by cops this radical Muslim would still be mowing people down with the killer truck. People don’t kill, trucks kill. And the more gasoline, the more deaths.
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July 15, 2016 at 10:30 pm
I blame Teamsters for lack of truck control.
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July 15, 2016 at 10:31 pm
All Muslims beat their wives. The Koran says it’s what men should do when their women don’t obey.
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July 15, 2016 at 10:32 pm
Well, they all have permission to beat their wives, I’m sure some don’t.
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July 15, 2016 at 11:08 pm
Franky,
Do I have to remind you that here you are not under Jonathan Turley’s protection. By that I mean you can have your say, call me names and disagree all you want……but if you keep pulling this shit of making multiple, inane comments to hijack a thread that is a different story.
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July 16, 2016 at 8:09 am
The Nice killer was radicalized very quickly by ISIS. They prey on his ilk. The spin from our President and those here who are apologists for Islamic savages is sickening. It’s time to take off the gloves.
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July 16, 2016 at 8:43 am
franky, So how do you propose to find out about these lone wolf terrorists that have little or no criminal history or known affiliations? They are here, there, and everywhere and they are weaponized. I know Trump is calling Obama an “appeaser”. What is your plan?I see Pence is aboard with Trump’s plan to ban Muslims.
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July 16, 2016 at 9:45 am
As General Flynn, who was fired by the appeaser in chief states, first you must identify and name the enemy, radical Islamic terrorists. Then you need a multi layered plan. Key is to destroy this savage ideology which attracts self radicalized savages. You do that by hitting the savages with ruthless attacks, not pin prick drones and air strikes that more than half the time don’t drop their ordinance. After showing power and strength, qualities revered in the Mideast culture, people will gravitate toward who they perceive as a winner. Finally, after showing we mean business, we require countries receiving assistance that they destroy the ideology in their jurisdictions, cooperate with our intelligence community, or all financial aid ceases. In a nutshell, this is Flynn’s plan. He’s a registered Dem. Whomever wins, I pray he is put in charge.
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July 16, 2016 at 9:53 am
The terrorist was a Tunisian citizen living in France. Do we bomb France? Trump wants to declare war but on whom?
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July 16, 2016 at 10:11 am
General Flynn’s plan is a ridiculous rehash of the failures in the Mid East since 9/11 that have actually resulted in making terrorism thrive. However, he is an authority figure in a uniform so you slavishly follow his vapid ideas.
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July 16, 2016 at 10:16 am
I thought we were talking about terrorism, Baltimore Pike Mom. Fuck Trump. Fuck Hillary. Level Raqqa.
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July 16, 2016 at 10:22 am
It was men in uniforms that stopped Hitler, ass eyes. I don’t love men in uniform. But you have a real problem will all people in uniforms; cops, military, and who else? Do you hate UPS drivers as well?
No one has responded to the elephant in the room. Terrorists use guns and it’s all about gun control. These savages will use any means to kill our children. What about truck controls and limits on fuel. I say 1 gallon tanks and no trucks bigger than a Toyota pickup. We’ll have to fight the oil industry and Teamsters, not the NRA on this.
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July 16, 2016 at 10:23 am
“I thought we were talking about terrorism,”
You don’t get to decide the nature of a discussion on a thread, which incidentally was about Trump.
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July 16, 2016 at 10:29 am
“What about truck controls and limits on fuel. I say 1 gallon tanks and no trucks bigger than a Toyota pickup.”
A dumb solution that ranks up there with taking ones’ shoes off for the TSA because of one idiot, who was caught before he could do anything with the bomb in his shoe. You are an example of the terrorists winning because their aim is to frighten people into acting just like them. You are an authoritarian at heart and given the right situation you’d be out goose-stepping to some Hitler’s tune.
And seriously “ass-eyes”? Certainly a silly invective. I wrote a rather long comment about you though and your inability to respond proves the truth of it.
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July 16, 2016 at 10:35 am
I wasn’t deciding ass eyes. The conversation had gone to terrorism, started by the only woman here, besides yourself, on 7/15/16 @ 10:17a. All subsequent comments were on that topic until she flipped back to Trump. I was simply calling her on the flip since she is a Rodham troll. Your Gene Howington is showing. He is an egomaniac, control freak. I say this without sarcasm. You aren’t a control freak like him. But, his influence on your blog management still shows when it gets heated.
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July 16, 2016 at 10:41 am
LOL! Are you stupid, or just playing stupid not understanding the truck controls suggestion. You might want to delete that comment. Everyone else picked up on the not so subtle parody of gun control rants after every mass killing by guns. What a rube.
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July 16, 2016 at 10:53 am
franky
July 16, 2016 at 8:09 am
The Nice killer was radicalized very quickly by ISIS. They prey on his ilk. ———————
——————–
How so, franky? what do you know we don’t?
franky
July 16, 2016 at 9:45 am
“As General Flynn, who was fired by the appeaser in chief states, first you must identify and name the enemy…”
Do you realize, I hope, that it is exactly such policy that has brought us ISIS? Right?
——————————-
I ask you one single/simple question: what extremist group we are currently fighting came outside of some form of US intervention, whether supportive or repressive?
SWM asked a fine question: do we bomb France? The Tunisian trucker is a French citizen!
Finally, yes, Mike is right, there is no doubt in my mind, franky, that you are the perfect foot soldier for fascism. You would be the one spying on your neighbor and denouncing him to the “commission”…as you did every other time in history when a group has been set on, fingered, interned, pogromed and genocided! The fervor with which you embrace targeting others and subject them to your irrational anger is telling of what you were in previous lives and what you will be again, given the opportunity.
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July 16, 2016 at 2:06 pm
Am I stupid? Not hardly. You are the clueless one with your idea to regulate trucks. The irrational libertarian is comfortable with more and more intervention into people’s private lives. You aren’t a libertarian, you are a fascist, but too caught up in your own fantasy view of the world to realize it.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste Franky, as is precious time. Yet here you are a deficient, wasted mind, calling me juvenile names and pontificating as if you had anything valid to say. You got nothing Franky. If you were a pitcher your best and only pitch would be the eephus getting slammed out of the park in deep center field. And yes I know more about Baseball Nick then you’ve ever known and I feel sorry for the kids you mistakenly coached.
You want to get personal with me, you do so at your own peril because you’re simply not in my league, nor are you in the same league as anyone here. That is true at Jon’s site as well so you whined enough to fill it up with no-nothing fascist authoritarians like yourself and sadly they all outclass you anyway. You are just another no-nothing whiner, just like Trump so it’s surprising you aren’t analingizing him, openly at least.
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July 16, 2016 at 2:36 pm
Woah!!! Check those oxygen levels. And then find someone to explain parody to your humorless, nicotine atrophied, mind. I am deadly serious, ass eyes. You are losing it. Someone please help him. He must have never read The Onion. Or, maybe he has and believed it real news. You know, as I think back, I’m not sure you have ever done a post with humor? The world is just seriousness 24/7 and you are going to save it, aren’t you?
The French government suppressed, until this week, atrocities by the Islamic terrorists @ the Bataclan massacre. These savages castrated men and gouged out the eyes of victims. Time to level Raqqa. I bet Hollande will join in on that.
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July 16, 2016 at 5:21 pm
” Key is to destroy this savage ideology which attracts self radicalized savages. You do that by hitting the savages with ruthless attacks, ”
Much has been made of the use of social media by radicals to recruit and inspire.
Our response, if we are to believe the talking heads presented by MSM, is to use MSM as a resource to identify potential sympathizers.
It seems clear to me there will continue to be radicalization and recruits for as long as the radicals tell a better, more convincing story to their audience.
Yet I see little evidence of any kind of response from the west to tell our story, to explain how the west and Islam can live in peace. Moderate Muslims ought to be our strongest allies against the allies. Yet they are treated with suspicion and disrespect.
Until we can tell a better story and present a convincing description of better future, we can be sure radicalization will take place and recruits will step forward to replace those shot down and hauled off to prison. .
This is a war of ideas that cannot be won solely with guns and bombs.
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July 16, 2016 at 5:35 pm
Back to Trump…. I think the choice of Pence as vp officially puts a fork in the idea of that ticket attracting Bernie Sander supporters. Pence is an anti-gay, anti-Planned Parenthood, pro NAFTA and pro TPP republican. He is a far right evangelical christian republican and certainly no change agent. Third party candidates will benefit but especially Johnson.
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July 16, 2016 at 5:43 pm
Do you think there is any possibility that Pence was chosen less to balance the ticket with voters than to appeal to old line conservative money men and king makers?
It seems to me Pence is their kind of guy and his presence on the ticket gives them a stake and maybe the incentive to provide material support that seems to have been lacking thus far.
But I have to admit that Trumps strategies and machinations are far too subtle for me to comprehend.
If anyone has a clue what Trump is up to, please let me know.
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July 16, 2016 at 5:55 pm
They say he almost switched again at the last minute but his children talked him down. I think he has a very bad case of adult ADHD along with some other forms of mental illness.
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July 16, 2016 at 6:12 pm
One of pray away the Pence’s tasks will be to round up the Koch Bros. So much for self funding……..
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July 16, 2016 at 6:46 pm
“And then find someone to explain parody to your humorless, nicotine atrophied, mind. I am deadly serious, ass eyes.”
I’d appreciate if you explained just what this sentence means because it seems quite incoherent, possibly apoplectic and definitely paradoxical. Short tip, insults don’t work if their content is unclear to most thinking people.
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July 16, 2016 at 7:40 pm
Big Mike, ISIS is very media savvy. And, they have lots of cash. Obama has not allowed hitting their oil wells because of environmental concerns[mind boggling]. They can use cash to radicalize people overnight. This latest ISIS savage in Nice smuggled $84k euro to his family in Tunisia a few days prior to using a truck to kill children. That’s chump change for “the jayvee.”
You are a wise man, Big Mike. As I heard on CIA guy say, “You can’t kill your way out of this, although a lot of killing must be done.” I agree on having to sell our story, but the story needs to be centered around strength and power. They worship those qualities. And it must not be spin. They need to see our strength for themselves, in the media and in the real world.
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July 16, 2016 at 8:16 pm
Big Mike, ISIS is very media savvy. And, they have lots of cash. Obama has not allowed hitting their oil wells because of environmental concerns[mind boggling]. BULLSHIT! HITTING THE OIL WELLS COUNTERS WHY WE ARE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. ALSO PISSES OFF TURKEY AND ERDOGAN WHOSE SON RUNS THE BUSINESS OF SMUGGLING THE STOLEN SYRIAN OIL OUT OF SYRIA AND TO THE EUROPE. ISIS’S CASH COMES FROM THE OIL SMUGGLING AND THE SAUDI/QATAR FUNDS. THE WEAPONS COME FROM US.
They can use cash to radicalize people overnight. This latest ISIS savage in Nice smuggled $84k euro to his family in Tunisia a few days prior to using a truck to kill children. ANY SOURCE FOR THAT? WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ISIS?
… but the story needs to be centered around strength and power. They worship those qualities. And it must not be spin. They need to see our strength for themselves, in the media and in the real world.
WHO IS THEY? WE HAVE BEEN AT WAR LESS 13 OUT OF 200 YEARS, HASN’T THE WHOLE WORLD SEEN ENOUGH OF OUR STRENGTH AND POWER? ANY SPOT OF LAND, ANY PEOPLE ANYWHERE THAT HASN’T SEE IT YET?
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July 16, 2016 at 8:48 pm
“If anyone has a clue what Trump is up to, please let me know.”
ask franky
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July 16, 2016 at 8:57 pm
BFM/ SWm to follow up on your points and/or repeat them:
I suspect that Trump’s choice of vp was to be the ultimate fuck you to the republican establishment. Had he chosen an outsider, he would have been able to claim an almost total independence from that system. But who is there with a name that enhances his campaign? Christie satisfies the name, some of the outsider stance and the inability to shade Trump, but he would not have enhanced the Trump campaign. Additionally, Trump being a bully, and Christie being a lap dog, there just was no way Trump would reward him with a vp slot.
Picking Pence is actually a smart tool for Trump to force the Rep establishment to rank behind his campaign…or at least refrain from pulling a coup at the convention. Pence should bring in some of the Cruz/Carson troops, and more importantly, WITHOUT chasing away Trump’s core supporters, whoever they are.
So Pence supports Trump WHILE NOT taking away from his street cred…and while acting as a shield against the Rep establishment/Cruz and their scheming. Further, it splits the party between the trumpets, the Cruz/Pence and the “moderates” such as Romney and Bush.
If Pence does a good enough job , he could be of great use to Trump by offering him instant credibility across the greater Republican divide that Trump simply cannot reach:fundamentalists.
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July 17, 2016 at 10:06 am
BFM: “If anyone has a clue what Trump is up to, please let me know.”
My personal belief is Trump is playing rope-a-dope; the dope being Hillary.
I think Hillary has a lock on about 24 blue states, like John Kerry did while losing the General (not necessarily the same states).
I think Trump has a lock on about 20 red states, like Mitt Romney did while losing the General (not necessarily the same states).
I think there are 4-7 swing states that will decide the election; and the reason they are swing states is that they are demographically near 50/50 Democrats and Republicans. I think Trump will concentrate his fire there.
However, strategically speaking, I think Trump knows the voting public has a short memory. He has said to his supporters in the past he has [opposition research] binders three feet thick on Hillary, and she will be easy to take down. But clearly he is not using them now. Instead of trying to take Hillary down now, he needs for her to reach her nadir of popularity in those swing states as close as possible to November 8th. His fire will be concentrated there, but the “rope a dope” strategy (like Ali vs. Foreman) is to appear to be losing round after round by not fighting back much at all, conserving strength, and when the opponent is tired and complacent, come out swinging hard and win.
In this case, that means letting Hillary spend her money, and ensuring that the peak of her popularity occurs early, and the relative peak of his popularity occurs late. That means hitting her hard and relentlessly in the last 8-10 weeks, in those swing states, with one negative ad after another after another, faster than she can respond to them, and too late for their impact to fade before November 8th. Negative ads do NOT work by getting Democrats to vote Republican or vice versa; they work by discouraging Democrats in swing states (which tend to be more to the ideological Right than Democrats in solid Blue states) from turning out, and the same negative ads will fire up the Republicans that already hate Hillary so a few percent more WILL turn out to vote; and that is how Trump turns a 50/50 or 51/49 state into a 49/51 state, which is all he needs in a winner take all contest.
It is to Trump’s advantage that there are still 20-30% of Democrats in swing states that say in polls they will never vote for Hillary. If even one tenth of them really mean it, Hillary loses. I will also note a factor in these swing states is the massive job losses they still suffer since NAFTA and will continue to suffer under the TPP, trade agreements kill American blue collar jobs (and quite a few white collar jobs, too, like computer programming, engineering, biology and the management jobs of workers in these fields). Trump is the only candidate promising to renegotiate all these job-killing treaties that overwhelmingly benefit corporations fare more than providing any middle class benefits. It makes little difference if shoes and computers are cheaper if we are chronically unemployed.
Trump is playing rope-a-dope, he isn’t looking be be out in front for a wire-to-wire race. He is in a holding position until at least both of the conventions are over, my guess is until late August. Let it look like Hillary is winning and has a lock on it; if possible wait until it is too late for voter registration in some states, so no new Democrats can register.
Pence is there to appeal to the hard right and religious conservatives in those swing states, to convince them it is safe to vote Trump. That’s it. IMO Pence is plenty sociopathic enough to make that sale, including to conservative women in the state. Trump doesn’t care about the popular vote or how badly he loses Blue states; Trump doesn’t care if he doesn’t win Red states by as much as Bush or Romney, as long as he wins by 50.01%. Trump is gaming the electoral college and nothing else. His ads will likely be filled with lies, slander, fictions and much missing information, along with a large dose of Colbert’s Truthiness, i.e. if people can google some key phrase and find it said by several authoritative writers on the Net, then it might as well be Truth for about 98% of voters that weren’t sure before they googled.
That is what I think Trump is up to.
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July 17, 2016 at 2:33 pm
MM
You are giving Trump too much credit. He can’t play the long game, intellectually, temperament-wise and emotionally. His whole life of pushing and threatening and lying has brought him to this exact point, and a leopard doesn’t change its spots even at the risk of losing the presidency.
His popularity took him by surprise, and the intuitive guy he is has been relying on that intuition from the start. The biggest concession he made was to bring in Paul manafort, an experienced head he may bow to a little, while never allowing the credit to get away from him.
Intuition is, for most people, in lieu of intellect. For others, a shortcut to thinking, and for very few people it is a prefilter, an initial step that removes the larger items before the intellect break the rest down. One cannot learn to do the latter at Trump’s age, one relies on that which brought us to that point, especially if we really believe it to be an asset.
The bad thing if indeed Trump is waiting to strike is that by the time he does, all the potential minefields he would expose her to would have already been defused, some naturally and other artificially. Whatever he brings up would already have been old news, especially the biggest one, the emailgate.
It is obvious Hillary knows exactly Trump’s hand, every single winning card and every single potential thorn, and she will not be taken by surprise at any step of it.
Additionally, Bernie has helped her avoid those mines himself, what better gift than “we don’t care about those damn emails?”
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July 17, 2016 at 2:56 pm
MM
“You are giving Trump too much credit. He can’t play the long game, intellectually, temperament-wise and emotionally. His whole life of pushing and threatening and lying has brought him to this exact point, and a leopard doesn’t change its spots even at the risk of losing the presidency.” po I think you are right and I also think Trump is mentally incapable of changing. He changes his mind on an hourly basis and appears to have neither a campaign strategy nor a governing strategy. He is winging it and it is obvious.
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July 17, 2016 at 3:34 pm
No doubt, SWM, no doubt. The worse part is that it is part of his appeal.
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July 17, 2016 at 3:52 pm
Just consider Trump’s record as a business manager.
For people like me that think corporations ought to produce goods and services, Trump seems inept.
But Trump is not really a CEO or entrepreneur. Trump is a hustler with proven ability to motivate rubes to lay down their money.
To Trump the election is just one more hustle. It matters not at all whether pundits and the people who read this blog think Trump is well prepared or informed. What matters is how many voters buy into Trump’s baloney.
Considering the minorities, women and college educated he has offended, I would say he has some problems. But I would not count Trump out. On the contrary it seems to me all he needs is one good crisis or one good speech.
BTW, Has Pence sealed the Dump Trump movement. Is there anything left over there?
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July 17, 2016 at 3:58 pm
I would not rule him out either.
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July 17, 2016 at 4:36 pm
But Trump needs to get white women .He has white men. Pence does not help him with women as Pence’s positions on women ‘s health issues are extreme.
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July 17, 2016 at 5:31 pm
Haverford Mom, This may come as a shock to you, but many women do not share your thoughts on abortion, which is what women really mean when they say, “Women’s health issues.” The latest Gallup poll has pro abortion vs pro life split 47% to 46%. And, every year, as science shows us babies on ultrasound, those pro life numbers grow. You’re smart enough to understand that. The abortion is a sacrament women are dying out, and young women see the issue more humanely.
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July 17, 2016 at 5:40 pm
I agree, Trump in many instances does wing it and shoot from the hip. On the other hand, the pathological liar, Rodham, focus groups everything she says. She’s not held a press conference yet this year because she might be asked a question that has not yet been polled. Take a look at Johnson/Weld, good people.
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July 17, 2016 at 5:43 pm
We know the Elitist College Mom is voting for Rodham. For whom are you other people planning on voting? Although some in the box people here keep trying to saddle me with Trump, no matter how often I lambast him, I am a Johnson/Weld person.
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July 17, 2016 at 6:11 pm
Never said I went to Swarthmore. I chose the name because I had a daughter there when I started on Turley’s and chose the name because there was another person named George Washington U mom. My daughter is smarter than I am and won a national merit scholarship to the school. I am a state university grad. Sorry to disappoint you. Did not grow up in an elite setting.
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July 17, 2016 at 6:14 pm
Planned Parenthood provides cancer screenings, HPV vacs, birth control and many of other services.
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July 17, 2016 at 7:19 pm
State U Mom, I have noticed as abortion becomes less acceptable to people, they don’t say “abortion” or even “choice” any longer. It’s now “women’s health.” Very Frank Luntz like.
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July 17, 2016 at 7:27 pm
Nope, he certainly cannot be ruled out, and that has less to do with what he really has to offer and more with what the various systems people look up to have not provided. Trump has not said anything other republicans haven’t, but perception being reality, whatever the disaffected populations see him as is what he is.
Most of his early run has consisted in gauging what reverberated and doubling down on that… as any politician would do.
I think 90% plus of panned parenthood services are not abortion related.
Also, as the number of religious women shrinks, the number of women (and men) supporting abortion rights will increase.
Additionally, all Trump needs to do is dirty up the water enough to turn women off on Hillary, but not so as to make them rally behind her. Though she is so disliked that most won’t go out of their way to support her, especially when they disagree with her policies. And the less draw at the polls, the better for Trump, for his supporters will show up.
Franky, who were you pulling for before Johnson showed up?
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July 17, 2016 at 7:52 pm
I just disagree with you guys. I do not subscribe to the idea that he is stupid; if he were stupid, and did what he did (go into the New York Real Estate business with the $100M he inherited from his father), he would be broke and penniless; he is not. We know for a fact (via lawsuit disclosure) that his personal income has been, in 2013 I think, in excess of $300M for the year. Stupid people in NYC real estate can lose their shirt fast, those are shark infested waters waiting for a dumbass to eat alive. Anybody that thinks Trump built up a multi-billion fortune, which he must have done to earn $300M when forced into disclosure, while being stupid, is pretty stupid their own self. You have to look past the facade at the evidence; Trump is playing a role and you think it is the real Trump. The real Trump is not an idiot; he is a self-indulgent, narcissistic, sociopathic liar, as a sociopath he may be perfectly willing to defraud “losers”, but none of those traits rule out a high IQ and excellent strategic thinking, which he has demonstrated on multiple occasions in business. They may cause him to stumble or make a mistake, but if you think he lucked into beating 17 professional politicians, you are being very stoopid. Morality is not a function of intelligence but of emotions, and mistaking a lack of empathy, justice, or fairness for actual stupidity is a terrible mistake for you to be making. You are not moral because you are intelligent, it is not “smarter” to be moral, it is a handicap that restricts your range of action!
So I won’t convince you, you have too much invested in the idea that Hillary is smart and Trump is dumb. It is the opposite, need I remind you that Hillary lost her first run for President to Obama through sheer incompetence in her campaign? Like ignoring the caucus states, lying on TV about duck and cover in Bosnia, overspending on “acting Presidential”, making idiotic ads that backfired and in general being an incompetent manager with incompetent campaign staff? Hillary is not smart! Look at her lame-ass public lies on the email server, like “she thought it would be easier to use one device,” when in fact she was using half a dozen JUST FOR EMAILS. Like saying she never sent classified information when she DID, over 100 times, discuss details of already-classified material. A smart person does not tell a transparent lie that is almost certain to be revealed; they say “they aren’t commenting” or they invent something that will hold up, and they don’t tell lies that don’t even pass the sniff test: We all watch TV, we all know that no cabinet level officer with secret service protection is EVER forced to carry their own devices.
You go ahead, presume I am wrong, Trump is stupid and Hillary knows what she is doing, the opposite of reality. That’s what Trump wants you to think, just like Mohamed Ali wanted Foreman to think he was just moments away from winning, for about 5 rounds, until Ali knocked him out cold in the eighth. By the fourth round, some fight commentators thought Ali would literally be killed in the ring; but Ali knew the rules and he counter-punched often enough that the ref could not call a technical knockout.
This is what rope-a-dope looks like. Trump is counter-punching when necessary, but we are early in the third round, and Ali did not come out hard until the very end of the fourth. Wait and see.
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July 17, 2016 at 9:01 pm
MM
Saying Trump is not intellectual does not mean that Hillary is smart, I don’t think anybody made that claim. I don’t think she is particularly smart,though she is obviously book smart. She is obviously not strategically smart. She would however be a better chess player than Trump because, unlike him, she is learn moves and stick to them. Trump is too undisciplined intellectually to set moves after moves after moves and stick to them.
As for his success, most people with $100M startup funds and with the shenanigans, the illegalities, the mob connections and political connections he inherited from his father would be this successful if they had any business sense at all. Building luxury buildings and casinos is not thinking outside of the box…nor is building luxury golf resorts. It’s all been done before and will be done again.
Trump is known to not pay his bills, to sue his creditors (he has sued and be sued altogether over 4000 times since 1970s), to find refuge in bankruptcies for his business failings… I am still waiting to see where, if ever, his business acumen has revealed itself.
And as for his $300M, still waiting to see it on paper.
Great interview of Trump biographer.
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/7/5/a_shocking_threat_to_the_world
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-2016-mob-organized-crime-213910
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July 17, 2016 at 9:04 pm
As for rope a dope, Ali was smart, skilled and could take a punch.
Trump can neither. How smart is he?
How skilled is he? At what?
We know he can’t take punch!
In this contest, he is Foreman, and Hillary is a better Ali than he is. She will run rings around him when debate time comes in. She is the political beast he never can be.
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July 17, 2016 at 9:57 pm
“Franky, who were you pulling for before Johnson showed up?”
po
yer makin this too easy.
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July 17, 2016 at 10:31 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA LMAO…That’s beautiful, Pete!
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July 17, 2016 at 10:52 pm
“We know the Elitist College Mom is voting for Rodham.”
Name calling again Franky? It’s so easy to call names when you have so little to say. You also have a great resentment for people based on schools they were affiliated with, but in the end it is because you’re a whiny little coward, hiding behind a pseudonym to disguise the fact that you’re bitter because of your failures in life. Being fired as a teacher, working as a private dick handling divorce cases and finally having a successful novelist for a wife to support you. I think anyone can understand why you’re bitter at people who are more successful and smarter than you. Poor, little misunderstood guy flinging excrement like a chimpanzee. 🙂
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July 18, 2016 at 2:19 am
Mike,
You’re underselling his resume. Don’t forget his illustrious career as a prison cop where he no doubt honed his humanitarian instincts.
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July 18, 2016 at 6:22 am
po: “most people with $100M startup funds and with the shenanigans, the illegalities, the mob connections and political connections he inherited from his father would be this successful…”
That is hilariously wrong. In NYC? You have GOT to be kidding me. Mobsters and politicians will rob you blind, not to mention a few hundred legal eagles in NYC that would have been happy to sue him blind.
Heck more than half of lottery winners end up broke by “investing” their money in scams. The stupid do not get to keep their money, and despite what movies may tell you, mobsters would not have given him an easy ride out of any respect for his dead father; they are not sweetly sentimental murderous thugs. They would have a stupid person buying a share in a “gold mine” in no time. (Some fake venture with literally unbelievable prospects).
Like it or not, Trump has a talent, he is an artist, and the best in the world at his particular niche of art. He knows how to sell luxury at ten times what it cost him. He truly understands how a certain segment of the ultra-rich think, what they truly want, and he has the right combination of personality traits to bully even the rich into paying him to build what they want.
You are lying to yourself if you think Trump is no danger and just a billionaire in a clown suit. If Trump were as stupid as you think, he would not be rich, he would not have beaten a field of 20 contenders for the nomination, he would not have gotten $2B (or as much as $3B by other estimates) of free air time, and the gap between him and Hillary would not be in the single digits.
Now if he was just a Forbes that inherited a fortune, he could be an idiot. But that isn’t what happened; he is famous and rich for actual products. As for his bankruptcies, so what? His batting average for successful ventures is double that of the best venture capitalist firms, thanks almost entirely to his one true talent: He has made fortunes in real estate catering to the luxurious self-indulgence of the ultra-rich with so much money they don’t really care about his outrageous markups.
Just because you hate somebody does not make them dumb; just because you don’t understand what somebody is doing does not mean their actions are stupid.
Being “smart” is the ability to make reasonably accurate predictions about how events will unfold; accurate enough to bet and profit from that prescience. Warren Buffett is “smart” about buying businesses, he has made 40 billion in his lifetime doing it. With a few abject failures, I might add, his prescience is far from perfect, but better than anybody else’s.
Trump is smart too, he did not inherit a fortune or a working business and sit on it; he has been in the field, working and building for over 40 years, and not only survived but built a fortune. Stupid people frequently fall into a money pit, but that doesn’t explain Trump’s success at all.
I hope lying to yourself provides you the security blanket you seek.
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July 18, 2016 at 8:17 am
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all “Schwartz thought about publishing an article describing his reservations about Trump, but he hesitated, knowing that, since he’d cashed in on the flattering “Art of the Deal,” his credibility and his motives would be seen as suspect. Yet watching the campaign was excruciating. Schwartz decided that if he kept mum and Trump was elected he’d never forgive himself. In June, he agreed to break his silence and give his first candid interview about the Trump he got to know while acting as his Boswell.
“I put lipstick on a pig,” he said. “I feel a deep sense of remorse that I contributed to presenting Trump in a way that brought him wider attention and made him more appealing than he is.” He went on, “I genuinely believe that if Trump wins and gets the nuclear codes there is an excellent possibility it will lead to the end of civilization.” “
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July 18, 2016 at 8:43 am
IP,
Yes, I had forgotten that he was also a prison guard, which adds much to understanding his mindset. As I remember it, his wife was also a prison guard and that was how they met. I chalk up his time here as a failed experiment of mine. I was hoping that by letting him have his say he might actually have developed into someone actually trying to express a different viewpoint that could be cause for discussion. He showed once again though that he is incapable of presenting anything but anger and hatred focused on the personal and directed towards me. In short he became tiresome and added nothing.
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July 18, 2016 at 9:39 am
Thanks for the link, SWm, very enlightening.
That article supports my previous comment about Trump.
This year, Schwartz has heard some argue that there must be a more thoughtful and nuanced version of Donald Trump that he is keeping in reserve for after the campaign. “There isn’t,” Schwartz insists. “There is no private Trump.” This is not a matter of hindsight. While working on “The Art of the Deal,” Schwartz kept a journal in which he expressed his amazement at Trump’s personality, writing that Trump seemed driven entirely by a need for public attention. “All he is is ‘stomp, stomp, stomp’—recognition from outside, bigger, more, a whole series of things that go nowhere in particular,” he observed, on October 21, 1986.
The first line of the book is an example. “I don’t do it for the money,” Trump declares. “I’ve got enough, much more than I’ll ever need. I do it to do it. Deals are my art form. Other people paint beautifully on canvas or write wonderful poetry. I like making deals, preferably big deals. That’s how I get my kicks.” Schwartz now laughs at this depiction of Trump as a devoted artisan. “Of course he’s in it for the money,” he said. “One of the most deep and basic needs he has is to prove that ‘I’m richer than you.’ ” As for the idea that making deals is a form of poetry, Schwartz says, “He was incapable of saying something like that—it wouldn’t even be in his vocabulary.”
Schwartz also tried to avoid the strong whiff of cronyism that hovered over some deals. In his 1986 journal, he describes what a challenge it was to “put his best foot forward” in writing about one of Trump’s first triumphs: his development, starting in 1975, of the Grand Hyatt Hotel, on the site of the former Commodore Hotel, next to Grand Central Terminal. In order to afford the hotel, Trump required an extremely large tax abatement. Richard Ravitch, who was then in charge of the agency that had the authority to grant such tax breaks to developers, recalls that he declined to grant the abatement, and Trump got “so unpleasant I had to tell him to get out.” Trump got it anyway, largely because key city officials had received years of donations from his father, Fred Trump, who was a major real-estate developer in Queens. Wayne Barrett, whose reporting for the Voice informed his definitive 1991 book, “Trump: The Deals and the Downfall,” says, “It was all Fred’s political connections that created the abatement.” In addition, Trump snookered rivals into believing that he had an exclusive option from the city on the project, when he didn’t. Trump also deceived his partner in the deal, Jay Pritzker, the head of the Hyatt Hotel chain. Pritzker had rejected an unfavorable term proposed by Trump, but at the closing Trump forced it through, knowing that Pritzker was on a mountain in Nepal and could not be reached. Schwartz wrote in his journal that “almost everything” about the hotel deal had “an immoral cast.” But as the ghostwriter he was “trying hard to find my way around” behavior that he considered “if not reprehensible, at least morally questionable.”
But when Barrett investigated he found that Trump’s father was instrumental in his son’s rise, financially and politically. In the book, Trump says that “my energy and my enthusiasm” explain how, as a twenty-nine-year-old with few accomplishments, he acquired the Grand Hyatt Hotel. Barrett reports, however, that Trump’s father had to co-sign the many contracts that the deal required. He also lent Trump seven and a half million dollars to get started as a casino owner in Atlantic City; at one point, when Trump couldn’t meet payments on other loans, his father tried to tide him over by sending a lawyer to buy some three million dollars’ worth of gambling chips. Barrett told me, “Donald did make some smart moves himself, particularly in assembling the site for the Trump Tower. That was a stroke of genius.” Nonetheless, he said, “The notion that he’s a self-made man is a joke. But I guess they couldn’t call the book ‘The Art of My Father’s Deals.’ ”
The other key myth perpetuated by “The Art of the Deal” was that Trump’s intuitions about business were almost flawless. “The book helped fuel the notion that he couldn’t fail,” Barrett said. But, unbeknown to Schwartz and the public, by late 1987, when the book came out, Trump was heading toward what Barrett calls “simultaneous personal and professional self-destruction.” O’Brien agrees that during the next several years Trump’s life unravelled. The divorce from Ivana reportedly cost him twenty-five million dollars. Meanwhile, he was in the midst of what O’Brien calls “a crazy shopping spree that resulted in unmanageable debt.” He was buying the Plaza Hotel and also planning to erect “the tallest building in the world,” on the former rail yards that he had bought on the West Side. In 1987, the city denied him permission to construct such a tall skyscraper, but in “The Art of the Deal” he brushed off this failure with a one-liner: “I can afford to wait.” O’Brien says, “The reality is that he couldn’t afford to wait. He was telling the media that the carrying costs were three million dollars, when in fact they were more like twenty million.” Trump was also building a third casino in Atlantic City, the Taj, which he promised would be “the biggest casino in history.” He bought the Eastern Air Lines shuttle that operated out of New York, Boston, and Washington, rechristening it the Trump Shuttle, and acquired a giant yacht, the Trump Princess. “He was on a total run of complete and utter self-absorption,” Barrett says, adding, “It’s kind of like now.”
Schwartz said that when he was writing the book “the greatest percentage of Trump’s assets was in casinos, and he made it sound like each casino was more successful than the last. But every one of them was failing.” He went on, “I think he was just spinning. I don’t think he could have believed it at the time. He was losing millions of dollars a day. He had to have been terrified.”
In 1992, the journalist David Cay Johnston published a book about casinos, “Temples of Chance,” and cited a net-worth statement from 1990 that assessed Trump’s personal wealth. It showed that Trump owed nearly three hundred million dollars more to his creditors than his assets were worth. The next year, his company was forced into bankruptcy—the first of six such instances. The Trump meteor had crashed.
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July 18, 2016 at 9:48 am
SwM,
Thanks for the link. I just read the entire New Yorker article and it is chilling, though it only backs up what all of us already knew about Trump. When Schwartz calls him a sociopath though, I think he is wrong. I see Trump as a narcissist, which in many ways is more dangerous than a sociopath. Sociopaths are capable of reacting to situations more cleverly than narcissists. With narcissists protection of their self image will lead them to self-destructive acts, whereas sociopaths are capable of reining themselves in when their safety is involved. For instance for me Hitler was a narcissist and Stalin was a sociopath. Hitler was unable to adjust to situations, whereas Stalin’s policies were tailored situationally. Since I’ve already witten about the similarities between Trump and Hitler, you know what my diagnosis of Trump is.
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July 18, 2016 at 9:59 am
MM says:
That is hilariously wrong. In NYC? You have GOT to be kidding me. Mobsters and politicians will rob you blind…
——————–
Without those connections however, no one can be successful in NYC at that time. The mob connections allowed Trump his greatest tool, to have a leg up on his competition. The mob connect insure him the cooperation of the unions, which turned a blind eye to his using hundreds of polish illegal immigrants whom he paid $4 to $6 per hour. Whatever he paid the mob in inflated ready mix, he saved in labor costs.
“Like it or not, Trump has a talent, he is an artist, and the best in the world at his particular niche of art.”
Answered above by Tony S. What is his talent other than bullshit? He is a con man! Everything he did was based on selling a fake image and a fake series of facts and by taking advantage of his partners.
“You are lying to yourself if you think Trump is no danger and just a billionaire in a clown suit. If Trump were as stupid as you think, he would not be rich, he would not have beaten a field of 20 contenders for the nomination, he would not have gotten $2B (or as much as $3B by other estimates) of free air time, and the gap between him and Hillary would not be in the single digits.
Who ever said that? That is a red herring to dismiss any good point against Trump. He is indeed a danger, for all of the reasons I stated and substantiated by the links provided. He is also a millionaire in a clown suit.
Additionally, I did not say he is stupid, I said he is nonintellectual, like Sarah Palin, They are both intuitive animals, lacking knowledge and intellectual discipline to break down rational arguments and ideas. IF Sarah Palin could be an okay governor, Trump can be an okay businessman, especially using the unfair tools of father sponsorship, lying, cheating, mob connections and not paying his bills.
As for his riches, we still do not know about them. And history has shown us a great many rich stupid people. Especially when they inherit their startup fund.
As for beating a field of 20 contenders, it is all about timing. He came at a time when the electorate was tired of business as usual. He did not beat them as much as they all flamed out. He is obviously the least qualified candidate of those 20, he offers the least proposals about anything, he is the least eloquent and insightful about any issue, he was also the least consistent and the most disruptive candidate. Do we think that had the media been successful in following up on his inane assertions that he would be the last one remaining?
How is getting free media attention a sign of smarts? By that standard, Kim kardeshian is a genius. Say dumb things and attack your opponents and the media will cover it.
As for the gap between him and Hillary, it is only so because she is more disliked as he is. Proof: He trails Bernie on every poll. That tells us something.
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July 18, 2016 at 11:50 am
po: “Without those connections however, no one can be successful in NYC at that time.”
I can equally say that without intelligence nobody can be successful in NYC real estate, either, as I said, it is shark infested waters, the prices are incredibly high and very smart con-men with very smart lawyers are always on the lookout for a quick buck. A “non-intellectual” with a $100M would quickly become a non-intellectual with about $1M if they waded into the NYC real estate market trying to make a buck, even today. The fact that this did not happen to Trump, back then or today, is proof of a hidden variable; and it is not mob protection or anything else.
Your distinction between “intellectual” and “intuitive animal” is just your bullshit way of saying he isn’t smart, but he IS smart, apparently because you do not want to admit he is smart but have no other explanation for why he won! I would point out that he DID win, and Hillary DID lose her first bid against Obama, so if all it takes to win on the first attempt is being an “intuitive animal” then, come this general election, which will be Hillary’s first, odds are on Trump. Your “intellectualism” is obviously over-rated and any lack of it hasn’t hurt Trump in the least.
I do not buy your distinction, Trump does not lack knowledge, and he is perfectly capable of “breaking down rational arguments and ideas”. The fact that he is not showing you that has fooled you into thinking he doesn’t have it.
po: ” He is a con man!”
Hm, if you believe that, why can’t you see through the con he is playing on voters? Why can’t you see his pretense of non-intellectualism is a facade designed to win the Republican nomination? Here is a hint: Sociopaths feel no shame. None. The things you would not do, out of your own sense of decency and desire for social acceptance, are all options for Trump if he sees any advantage to be gained by doing them.
po: “How is getting free media attention a sign of smarts?”
The smart thing is translating that into votes and a win instead of a loss. The smart thing was reading the crowd correctly enough to know what they wanted to hear. You are correct, the smart thing isn’t getting media coverage; you can do that and ruin yourself at the same time. The smart thing was getting about $3B worth media coverage that helped him win the nomination, instead of a few hundred million worth of media coverage and a dead loss because of what he had said.
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July 18, 2016 at 11:52 am
P.S. Trump had no unfair tools of “father sponsorship”, his father was, rather necessarily, DEAD when Trump inherited his fortune. His father was not protecting him from any sharks in the water, and there were plenty of sharks in the water. He survived and thrived on his own.
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July 18, 2016 at 12:34 pm
MM
I already addressed all of your points, above, and won’t repeat myself. Your issue is that you are giving powers to Trump he never displayed previously. The best you can say about him is that he made a fortune as a real estate developer, and even that fortune, its extent and its methods is clouded in a veil of suspicion.
such a business genius has been bankrupt several times? Such a business acumen has been involved in 4000 lawsuits? In so many business failures? In so many defrauding of partners and people?
I make a distinction between intellectual and intuitive because there is a distinction between the two. I am naturally intuitive, but being aware of that and knowing that intuition alone is a handicap rather than a strength, I have worked to develop general and specific knowledge and develop my intellect as the actual tool of rationalization. That took discipline and hard work. I know when someone hasn’t done the work, and Trump hasn’t.
One of my siblings is very intellectual, and it takes her hours of mental cogitation to arrive to the same conclusions I reach in a second, intuitively, but unless I back my intuition with research and processing, she always has the last word because the intellectual process is always more stable, disciplined and logical.
People who don’t read don’t have knowledge other than superficial/ street knowledge. That is sufficient for a street corner thug, not for a so called business magnate. EVERYTHING said about Trump by anyone who has known him supports consensus that he knows very little, and a study of his speech, his mental processes and everything else that makes him up, including temperament, supports that he is not an intellectual by any means, that he is merely intuitive, that he is ignorant of much and that he takes shortcuts, like Sarah palin. Though I suspect that Palin may be smarter than Donald, for the simple reason that at some point or another she had to learn to play the political game, which required a certain measure of detachment from the self and an ability to show some discipline.
His whole presidential run reflects the same psychological and personal tendencies he has shown his whole life…which everyone who knows him or knows people agrees are all symptoms of everything genius, but all of a sudden, we are to accept that it is all symptoms of genius? And that we are to trust he will come up with genius moves the capability of which he has never shown previously?
The fact he got $3B worth of media coverage is not a personal accomplishment by Trump, it is actually an indictment of the media that follows him like flies to shit BECAUSE it gives them ratings. The fact that the RNC debates broke viewing records was also due to Trump’s ability to excite, which is less due to his smarts or abilities but simply due to the WWf atmosphere he creates. One can attempt crediting him for that just as one may credit Franky for creating a brouhaha wherever he goes. Actually, Trump is very much like Franky… or Paul Schutle…disturb enough and you get all the attention. Then claim the brouhaha as sign of your effectiveness.
Hillary will destroy him, and it will be unfortunate.
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July 18, 2016 at 2:51 pm
po: “… such a business genius has been bankrupt several times?”
For those of us that have spent a lifetime in business and following business, we know that the very best Venture Capitalists that have funded hundreds of companies in the multi-million dollar investment range have a batting average of about 3 in 10 home runs, 4 in 10 break-evens, and 3 in ten bankruptcies. And lawsuits in business are like snow in New York, virtually guaranteed to be plentiful.
This is the nature of business; it really is a risk, even for VC that are heavily trained in business with decades of experience not only in business but in funding businesses, the very best of them have a significant number of bankruptcies. In fact there is an aphorism in business: If you always succeed you aren’t taking enough risks.
Your naive indictment of Trump going bankrupt in some businesses is actually evidence against your thesis, those bankruptcies prove that he is taking risks with his money and sometimes losing; but overall he is winning far more than he is losing. Why? Because like the VC, he knows what he is doing and enough of his gambles are “home runs” that the winners have made him billions.
As for the $3B in media coverage, the fact is that he got it and nobody else did and it landed him a win. Pretending that is an accident because you want him to be “non-intellectual” is pretty stupid, It is like saying he played a poker tournament and won it, but it had nothing to do with knowing how to play poker.
In any case, do you think the media has suddenly grown up and will no longer care about ratings? Of course not. I am sure Trump is already laughing and taking notes at all the slander he will fling on Hillary that the media will not be able to resist. What makes you think the “WWF” atmosphere he creates is not his intent? You have no evidence of that.
And no, you have not “addressed” my points in the least, all you did is deny them.
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July 18, 2016 at 4:17 pm
MM
My criticism is very specific and you keep answering particulars I am not addressing.
1- You are answering with venture capitalists who fund hundred of businesses, which is different from a business running his own businesses. The risks inherent in the one are not found in the other. And as for lawsuits, what do you mean by plentiful? 4000 lawsuits? How many businessmen you know involved in 4000 lawsuits?
Lawsuits are parts of any business. We have the same aphorism in architecture and construction, that lawsuits are the norm….yet many of us have a very productive career without one single lawsuit…
Donald Trump has been said, by people who know him better than you or me, for having written about him and followed him decades, that his business methodology is less business like and more immoral, which explains the huge number of lawsuits. Where many avoid lawsuits, Trump uses them as a mean of insuring profits, by not paying, being sued and settling for a dime on a dollar.
2- You keep speaking of Trump as if you know something the rest of the world doesn’t. David Cay Johnson and Barrett, and Tony S have written books and countless articles about him, quoting Trump associates and government people. They have researched his practices and his businesses for decades, they are the ones who are saying these things about Trump, same things you, ignorant of much Trump related business, are claiming to be false?
What do you base your assumptions?
3-Even the claim that Trump is actually a successful businessman is just that, an assumption coming from Trump himself. Those aforementioned reporters above state that Trump is actually nowhere near as successful as he claims. We can’t tell for sure because he wouldn’t release his taxes.
The problem is that you are using that assumption, of his business success, and therefore of an established business acumen to support your sole argument that because Trump is business smart, he is therefore politically savvy. You are also using it to counter my point that Trump is not intellectually smart, which is a fact, borne by everything that makes him up, especially his own words.
4- As for the media blitz over him, do you really think it is due to any strategic move on his part? Do you think the media would cover him if he wasn’t upping the ratings? And why is he upping the ratings? Because he keeps saying dumb shit that people can’t believe he said. I, as well as many others watched the RNC debates, not because Trump manipulated us but because we, as for everyone else, like a shootout at okay corral or a train wreck as any other. Trump’s strategy is as simple and as effective as to say stupid things, interrupt people, make outlandish claims he can’t back up and contradict himself continuously. If that is a strategy, then we do not understand what strategy is. There was a demand for Trump and the media indulged us. That simple. That is why, in the waning days of his campaign, marco Rubio resorted to mentioning hand size in order attract some media attention.
But yeah, let’s assume that the WWF atmosphere is indeed Trump’s intent…now what? Did he really have a choice in it? Could he have mounted a campaign based on ideas? No he couldn’t, and you know it.
According to his own campaign and supporters, it costs him more than he gains from it, resulting in his attempting, very unsuccessfully to appear more presidential… As I said, he is like Franky, unable to keep up intellectually, he flings shit around and makes a ruckus. WHICH supports my point that he is nonintellectual 🙂
5- Now you can make your case by showing that:
A- Trump is smart/intellectual and has the tools to be successful in politics
B- Trump is really a successful businessman (including perhaps defining what success means)
C- All the crazy talk is part of a strategy
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July 18, 2016 at 4:42 pm
po: “… which is different from a business running his own businesses.”
No, it isn’t, the very fact that Trump has made or bought many businesses, some successful and some not, means he is acting like a venture capitalist, just with his own money. You try to make distinctions that DO NOT EXIST in order to support your preconceived idea that Trump is a dolt.
There is no salient difference between the failure rate of highly trained and extensively experienced Venture Capitalists, many of whom do put up their own money in ventures (and whose income absolutely depends upon said ventures), and the failure rate of Donald Trump using his own money. The only point is that no matter how careful one is or how smart one is, some business ventures fail, THEREFORE a series of failed business failures is NOT evidence of any lack of intellect.
As for “Trump is smart/intellectual and has the tools to be successful in politics”, Duh! He outsmarted 17 contenders and professional politicians in the Republican primary! You just ignore evidence you don’t find convenient, I guess.
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July 18, 2016 at 7:27 pm
MM
Again, you are conflating different things in order to make your point. A venture capitalist generally provide funding for new businesses of ones already established but needing funding. A businessman, as most of us know it, including Trump himself who takes pride in and claims credit for running his own businesses, is a person who actually runs his own businesses, or is directly involved in running them, whether he created them from scratch or bought them. That is actually the difference between Trump and Romney, one is a businessman, the other a venture capitalist. I am a businessman because I run/manage my own businesses. I frame the business principles, hire people, make the relevant decisions, and the success or failure of my business speaks fully of my (in)ability to run it.
Part of Trump’s claim is that he is a businessman, he knows how to run things (same claim made by Fiorina), he knows how to deal with people, how to manage, how to start businesses and run them, or buy them and improve them. That is actually the whole premise behind his tv show, the Apprentice. TRUMP HIMSELF FRAMES HIMSELF AS A BUSINESSMAN, NOT A VC. And of what makes a good businessman is how successful one is at running businesses, which makes bankruptcies one of the means by which we measure how successful of a businessperson one is.
That is why, therefore, both the republican candidates and Hillary have attacked Trump on his claim of being a good businessman by citing exactly those bankruptcies…and it stung enough where Trump had to deny having bankruptcies, or tried to limit the numbers to less than others businesspeople. That is why also Fiorina has been attacked (bu Trump) on her record of business failure at HP. In business as in life, a bankruptcy is a stain on one’s record and perceived ability to manage a business/finances/life.
You can’t change that fact by making Trump a vc all of a sudden.
Finally, he did not outsmart anyone. I am waiting to see how he outmaneuvered his fellow contenders. What moves did he make other than offering contradictory statements, calling people names and bullying everyone who speaks to him? Was that his strategy?
Did he overpower anyone in debate?
Did he offer better solutions to any issues?
Does anyone know what he stands for on any issue?
If obfuscation. demonization of others and ignorance of the issues is a strategy, then yes, he outmaneuvered everyone.
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July 18, 2016 at 9:22 pm
What a great evening for TV. On one channel we have the Republican national convention and the next channel WWE Monday night raw.
Oh how I envy my Uncle with his two Large screens set up side by side in the living room.
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July 19, 2016 at 7:25 am
emptywheel @emptywheel 36m36 minutes ago
“As I said last night, “making America great” (in the sense Trump means it) has always involved stealing from black people.” Cannot watch this convention.It is the worst ever.
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July 19, 2016 at 8:00 am
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/strangest-moments-gop-convention-day-one Maybe more people will watch after they hear about Melania’s plagiarized speech. Someone should get fired.
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July 19, 2016 at 8:12 am
SwM,
My wife and I watched the whole thing last night, filled with a sense of dread. Fascism lives in America.
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July 19, 2016 at 9:11 am
Speaking of fascism ,Mike, I listened to about three minutes of Guilani’s speech and left the room. My husband had it on for the entirety.
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July 19, 2016 at 10:43 am
po: You don’t know what you are talking about, or you are reading something that does not match the real world.
In the vast majority of venture capitalism, the VC put very strict controls on the people they are funding, approve all spending, and typically it is a requirement of funding that certain key functions (like accounting and the Chief Financial Officer, often the Chief Marketing Officer) be people they appoint and that report to them equally. You seem to think they write a check and hope for the best; in fact most VC agreements have very strict milestones for the company to reach that are monitored quarterly or even monthly; with penalties if they are not met, often meaning the principles (people seeking funding) give up more ownership in order to continue receiving financing. The financing itself is typically doled out, not a lump sum. Verification of (or full outright control of) the expenditures is a requirement; and in return for their money the VC typically have veto power over everything from the moment they commit to the day they sell the majority of their shares. Getting Venture Capital is a partnership, and they become the senior partners. It is, as they say, the Golden Rule: The people with the gold make the rules. Considering that most big money VC firms only fund about 1% of the proposals they receive, they can be about as draconian and picky as they want. They run the business, and until it is “successful” or dead, the business founders take a back seat. About the only exceptions are famous founders with a track record of successfully running large businesses. Those get media attention, but in actuality this is quite rare, because people that are already very successful seldom need to give up any ownership in a new venture, in order to get venture capital! They can fund it themselves or use their credit line to fund it.
So you are wrong again, Trump is doing exactly the same thing as venture capitalists and his losing ventures are not indicative of a lack of intellect.
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July 19, 2016 at 11:59 am
So how many votes will Melania’s plagiarism cost the GOP on election day – or is this ‘issue’ just busy work for pundits?
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July 19, 2016 at 12:10 pm
I completely disagree with you, MM. There is a vc (Romny)and there is a traditional businessman (Trump) and there is large area of overlap between the two. Being the one does not require or prohibit being the other and vice versa.
I don’t have the numbers but I am willing to bet that most vc firms do not run the businesses they fund. They do not handle the hiring, the firing, the day to day operation and most of the daily decisions that address the business.
Yes, just like any funding source, including banks, lending money demands one is given guarantees as to the likelihood of success for the business and of returns, and that demands the funder takes steps to lessen the risks of losing their investment, hence the structure they establish and the amount of independence allowed the business owner, which varies.
A businessman is like a CEO, who actually runs a business, and Trump is principally that, a CEO of his businesses, not a vc.
As such, his losing ventures are a reflection not of his lack of intellect, but of his not being as great of a businessman as he claims. Additionally, I am not saying that to fail in business is to lack intellect, not at all, I am saying that Trump lacks intellect naturally, and I am using his business failures are proof only that your claim of his having an intellect, which you tie to his business acumen, is fallacious.
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July 19, 2016 at 12:12 pm
bigfatmike
July 19, 2016 at 11:59 am
So how many votes will Melania’s plagiarism cost the GOP on election day – or is this ‘issue’ just busy work for pundits?
———————–
None, just pundit fun!
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July 19, 2016 at 12:33 pm
It is probably not a major issue but just illustrative of the disorganization of the campaign. On the other hand if Michelle Obama had been caught plagiarizing, the Trump supporters would probably say that it is a criminal offense because she disrespected white people.
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July 19, 2016 at 12:48 pm
http://www.vox.com/2016/7/19/12225272/melania-trump-plagiarism-matters “Plagiarism offers a window into a different aspect of Trump, one that isn’t integral to his appeal. Trump is a phony. And a lazy one at that. He refuses to put in the work, and if he becomes president the consequences are likely to be disastrous and unpredictable.
Just ask his wife who stood up on a nationally broadcast primetime telecast to vouch for his integrity and decency, and turns out to have been set up for humiliation because Trump couldn’t be bothered to build the kind of professional presidential campaign that would equip Melania Trump with a decent speech.”
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July 19, 2016 at 1:20 pm
“Just ask his wife who stood up on a nationally broadcast primetime telecast to vouch for his integrity and decency, and turns out to have been set up for humiliation because Trump couldn’t be bothered to build the kind of professional presidential campaign that would equip Melania Trump with a decent speech.””
On the other hand, another example of Trump’s business acumen. He found a very cost effective way to provide his wife more than a decent speech. It was an outstanding speech. It was an inspiring speech. It just wasn’t her speech.
But who cares – done, done and on to the next one.
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July 19, 2016 at 1:32 pm
On to the next wife or the next speech? BFM
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July 19, 2016 at 2:04 pm
what we call business acumen for Trump is what we have always known as laziness and stupidity. The fact he gets away with it is not a sign of good strategy or political insight, it is a sign of typical corner cutting and intuitive (ie shortsighted) tendencies.
I teach my oldest that to cut corners or act on a whim is to open himself up to the consequences of such laziness, and such consequences will always be costlier than the thinking that should have preceded it.
Hillary did worse with emailgate and got away with it…Trump will got away with this as he has gotten away with everything else before it…and it speaks less of them and more of us as a society.
There is no longer a communal frame of reference, we are open to anything, and impunity is now the norm, whether etatic or individual. And we cannot distinguish it from the impunity of Bush v Gore, the impunity of the iraq invasion, or the impunity of the economy sinking, or the impunity of Fast and furious, or the impunity of killer cops, or the impunity of Flint…
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July 19, 2016 at 2:13 pm
Well that is a good question isn’t it.
I had assumed Trump would be on to the next step in his acquisition of America or his next big project.
But with a subtle artist of the deal like Trump, how could we possibly know?
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July 19, 2016 at 2:14 pm
po: You are free to disagree, and be wrong. Romney was not a VC, Romney was a take-over (acquisition) con man that defrauded people selling their businesses for health, retirement or financial need reasons; and you will notice that when he did that, he took complete control of those companies; saddled them with debt, paid what he borrowed to himself, destroyed (legally) their retirement funds, sold off the profitable elements of the business and eventually bankrupted them. If Romney is your exemplar, then you should believe all VC take complete control and drive the companies they fund into bankruptcy!
VC start ventures, but they aren’t dumbasses, they take control to minimize any losses due to anything but actual business or product concept failure, and to let them cut their losses severely (and legally) if they find out along the way that they are making a bad bet.
To believe otherwise is just fantasy, not the real world; if they just handed over big wads of money they would be defrauded by con-men down to their underwear, and this almost never happens because they are involved.
As far as day-to-day hiring, you are partially correct: The business plan contains budgetary limits for the various job positions necessary to pursue the idea, and as long as the founders stay within those limits hiring is up to them. However, VC have to approve any NEW salary or position requirements, and especially any new officers, principle owners (i.e. own a percentage, even if it doesn’t come out of their share), board members, or stock option grants not specified in the VC contract.
The founders themselves are usually working for less than they could earn by taking a job in the private sector; VC do not pay founders exorbitantly out of their own pocket; in fact founders are expected to have “skin in the game” and can become financially well off only if the company is successful; usually founders get rich by selling some or all of their percentage of the company (publicly or to a private buyer acquiring them).
But the CEO of the funded company cannot unilaterally declare he is giving himself a raise or the company is going on a two week retreat to New Zealand or even that he is going to divert some employees or hire new ones to begin working on a new idea. All of that is prohibited by the VC contract. They have control. Because they aren’t stupid.
Even if the VC do not own over 50% of the company (and 40% or less is not uncommon), they typically retain control of the company through their contract which cannot be broken; they are always on the board of the new company, and it is quite easy (and legal) to give the VC voting superiority without giving them ownership superiority; in corporations ownership and voting control are easily separated. Remember, the CEO (and sometimes other officers such as President) of the company generally works for the Board of Directors; control the board and you control the company, because you can fire the CEO and officers and replace them with somebody else. In fact, VC have done exactly that in the past on more than one occasion: They cannot strip the CEO of shares to which they are legally entitled, but if a headstrong CEO refuses to take orders from a VC-controlled board, he can be fired by the Board and replaced.
As I said, you don’t know what you are talking about. Donald Trump’s business failures are no different than any Venture Capitalist’s business failures; such things are to be expected when taking the risk of trying something new.
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July 19, 2016 at 3:31 pm
MM, look it up. Mitt Romney was indeed a venture capitalist, along with the other things you mentioned. As I stated above, there is vc and businessman and everything in between. Being one does not negate being the other.
Whatever you have said so far does not negate:
1- Trump is a businessman in the classic meaning
2- Mitt Romney is MOSTLY a vc, not the type of businessman Trump is
3- Being a successful businessman of any type does not require one be an intellectual, much/most fortunes have been built on shrewdness and intuition.
4- Nothing about Trump tells us he is indeed politically shrewd, including his business success, IF indeed he is successful in business.
5- Of a vc, a ceo or a single owner, which best defines Trump?
6- Trump’s business failures speak greatly of his business abilities, just as Fiorina’s failure at HP speak of her business abilities or lack thereof, just as the Hermann Cain’s success at godfather pizza invested him with the clout of speaking business as a candidate and just as Ross Perot’s successes empowered him similarly.
Even a vc partner is only as valuable to his partners as his ability to avoid failures, which is based on some luck, certainly but mostly demands intuition, intellect, managerial abilities, ability to research the business and the field, along with business sense and skills. The more failures any businessman encounters, the less valuable he is and the less he can claim to be a skilled businessman. It is really that simple.
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July 19, 2016 at 5:43 pm
po: No, it is not that simple. You are just that simple.
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July 19, 2016 at 8:24 pm
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2016/07/19/24362128/dan-savage-on-jill-stein-just-no ” And we’re hearing the same thing now about Hillary and Donald. That they’re both equally awful. They’re both equally terrible, corrupt two party system, fuck it, fuck it, fuck it. Fuck them both, fuck both their houses! Vote for Jill Stein!
And if Donald should get elected, oh he’s so terrible, so much worse than the equally awful Hillary Clinton, that his election will bring the revolution.
It’s bullshit.
The revolution did not come in 2000 when George W. Bush got close enough to winning to steal the White House. It will not come if Donald J. Trump gets his ass elected.
Disaster will come. And the people who’ll suffer are not going to be the pasty white Green Party supporters — pasty white Jill Stein and her pasty white supporters. The people who’ll suffer are going to be people of color. People of minority faiths. Queer people. Women.”
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July 19, 2016 at 11:44 pm
SWm, I was on the fence on Savage for a while but this does it, that guy is an idiot. The idea that to vote for a candidate who says all the right things,actually the ONLY candidate to say all the rights things is a wasted vote is the most idiotic thing I can think of.
The idea of voting for the least worse candidate because one fears the possibly worse candidate when the least worst candidate is bad enough is so upside down as to warrant taking away from guys like the right to vote.
Do we realize what he and his ilk are advocating? That we vote out of fear, for the rest of our lives?
What if we find out that Trump was running just to elect Hillary (nothing impossible at this point.)
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July 19, 2016 at 11:50 pm
What if we find out that Trump was running just to elect Hillary (nothing impossible at this point.)
Seriously deranged.
But what can you expect from the guy who admires the guy who thinks Newtown and Orlando are hoaxes since no bloody bodies were seen.
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July 20, 2016 at 2:57 am
“The Republican National Convention has echoed with all kinds of accusations against Democrats, but perhaps the oddest came when Dr. Ben Carson spoke to the arena Tuesday evening and suggested that Hillary Clinton may be … a devil-worshipper. ”
Hmmm….. maybe we have been too abrupt in writing Clinton off. If she has those connections maybe we ought to give her a second look.
I mean, if we ought to deal with our adversaries from a position of strength – who in their right mind is going to mess with the devil?
This could work.
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July 20, 2016 at 8:42 am
po, Maybe if your were a gay man you would feel differently about the situation. Gay people have been on an upward trajectory the last few years with regards to their rights. A return to the “pray away the gay” mentality might not be so appealing to them.
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July 20, 2016 at 10:26 am
Po,
I couldn’t disagree with you more on Dan Savage, who I have been following for many years..He is one of the most perceptive commenters on this country out there. As with any journalistic opinion, we must analyze what is being said and put it into the context of our own beliefs. The history of the treatment of LGBT people in this country has paralleled the oppression of people of color. Perhaps it is our difference in age that is part of the problem. I grew up in an America that treated gay people worse, if that is even conceivable, than it treated Black people, including lynchings. It is no coincidence that Gay people in Germany were also sent to the gas chambers. Hatred of Gay people has always been a tool of demagogues seeking power. You may not agree with Savage on certain issues, but his body of work from my perspective is impeccable.
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July 20, 2016 at 10:27 am
Insufferable, you are reaching, buddy! Then again, if that is the only complaint you have about everything I have said so far on this topic, zoning onto one throwaway line out of 2 full paragraphs of insightful (yes) commentary, then I am doing okay 🙂 Leave that line alone and study what was said before it, there is much for you to learn from it. I can beak it down further for you…or even rewrite it much slower this time if that might help.
Now if you are interested in debating my choice of sources again, feel free to really engage. If you also desire to challenge my belief that there is a strong likelihood that these acts of domestic terrorism are false flag operations, either fully run by the “government” or allowed by them to further some hidden agenda, again, feel free to take the gloves off, I’ll eagerly, and shamefully indulge you. Right now you are being Frankish…
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July 20, 2016 at 10:29 am
“But what can you expect from the guy who admires the guy who thinks Newtown and Orlando are hoaxes since no bloody bodies were seen.”
IP,
For years national political discussion has included “low information voters”. In Trump we are dealing with a “low information” candidate.
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July 20, 2016 at 10:46 am
Mike
I think you are misunderstanding my comment which concerned po’s mental stability.
Po is delusional. He believes that Newtown and Orlando are hoaxes or false flags. He is a fan of some crazy person who po thinks is a journalist and publishes this crap. Those are seriously delusional ideas.
Seriously. Delusional.
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July 20, 2016 at 10:58 am
Mike, SWm
I have also followed Savage for a while, almost as long as I have Bill maher (I think his show is where I started seeing him on), and I never really disagreed with his views because they came from the social-liberal side that I hang out on (nor did I disagree with Bill Maher until he went overdrive with his islamophobia and warmongering).
This election runs actually revealed something I was unconsciously aware of all along about Savage that now bugs me, which is that his perspective is solely the gay perspective, and in the name of protecting and supporting gay rights and gay from bullies, he has been relentless on any other group, including Christians and Blacks, a typical anti-bullyism bully.
His manners are grating and his debate rapidly devolves to rudeness and calling his opponents names. He is the self-righteous blowhard that Rush Limbaugh is, only from the left, only from the gay side.
These comments on Jill Stein, which I have heard him make previously but tuned out, is the straw that broke the camel’s back.
The comment reflects exactly my problems with him: there is no gray in it, no debate in it, only black and white, and he is the white, rightful, righteous, loud and obnoxious, judgmental, because HE thinks that, and the others black, dumb, wrong and shameless.
A vote for Stein is a vote for Trump is not new. Hell, even now we are told a vote for Sanders is a vote for Trump, as we were told a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush, which is all bullshit obviously, so in that he is not saying anything new. What I react to specifically is that I feel he is always willing to sacrifice everyone and their interest to HIS own crusade, gay rights.
And even if we were to break down the logic of his comments based on his own stance, we see that Trump has been a longer running supporter of gay rights than has Hillary! And if we do from my stance, who is more at risk right now in this society? Blacks and Muslims, me and me! Were gays targeted at the RNC? No, but Blacks and Muslims were, steadily, relentlessly.
And I do disagree about the burden of homosexuality vs Blacks skin in America. Being gay is easily hidden, which many gays have managed to do unfortunately but successfully throughout history, while all of Black people’s ills stem from the fact that their natural state of blackness is obvious, and their skin tone, which they cannot hide, has directly and overtly and systematically warranted their mistreatment for over 400 years and going.
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July 20, 2016 at 11:06 am
InsufferablePedant
July 20, 2016 at 10:46 am
Mike
I think you are misunderstanding my comment which concerned po’s mental stability.
Po is delusional. He believes that Newtown and Orlando are hoaxes or false flags. He is a fan of some crazy person who po thinks is a journalist and publishes this crap. Those are seriously delusional ideas.
Seriously. Delusional.
——————————
I am now starting to believe IP is just another handle for Franky, Nick, Znew…
Dude, this is the extent of your contribution to this blog…?
Of all there is to discuss, you choose to remain on this topic?
Really?
Put some skin into the game, friend, make it official, let’s debate this like grownups… if that is, you are capable, intellectually and in terms of knowledge to accept my challenge.
Then again maybe your bad habits from Turley are too ingrained now to allow you any more than just this…random disturbance… shame!
Shame!
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July 20, 2016 at 11:25 am
“And even if we were to break down the logic of his comments based on his own stance, we see that Trump has been a longer running supporter of gay rights than has Hillary! And if we do from my stance, who is more at risk right now in this society? Blacks and Muslims, me and me! Were gays targeted at the RNC? No, but Blacks and Muslims were, steadily, relentlessly.” po If you think that is the case why do you think a Trump presidency is preferable? Trump has said that Pence will be his policy man. Pence is one of the most anti-gay elected officials.
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July 20, 2016 at 11:46 am
SWm
I won’t vote for either Hillary or Trump. I was not going to vote for Sanders either, I suspected that he was not what I hoped he was and he proved it by endorsing Hillary.
I tend to go with the devil i don’t know more so than the one I do. And I cannot morally vote for Hillary knowing what I know about her. If I had to vote for either, I would be voting for Trump based on the fact that he has not yet done what she has in terms of evil, but also because Trump has at least stated that he would not do some of the things that Hillary has done that I disagree with.
Either one will sink us, no doubt about that in my mind, but peace of mind (mine, knowing I am taking a stand) and track record are the difference.
As for Mike Pence, I am certain that he is not the policy guy. I read that right down to the edge of the convention Trump was pondering pulling the vp out from Pence. I doubt very much that Trump would let his vp define an anti-gay/lgbt policy that he himself disagrees with, especially knowing the amount of resistance that it would cause.
Jill Stein is the only candidate with whom I agree on everything I have heard her speak on, especially in terms of foreign policy. I also liked O’Malley.
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July 20, 2016 at 11:51 am
po is not only delusional, he is uninformed. Gays have been targeted by the RNC. Perhaps po should read the Republican platform and get himself up to speed.
I don’t give a shit about po’s ridiculous postings and positions. Newtown is a different matter. Dismissing the deaths of twenty kids by maintaining Newtown is a hoax or false flag is beyond despicable. I will call it out every time and the kindest thing I can say about such ravings is that the writer is delusional.
So at the very least, po is delusional AND uninformed. It’s a waste of time to argue with the man.
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July 20, 2016 at 12:01 pm
Trump is on record that he will torture. He has said we should kill the families of terrorists. He will deport 11 million people. He will bomb the shit out of Syria. He will end the ACA which will end insurance for over 10 million people.
And Clinton is the evil one? What bullshit.
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July 20, 2016 at 12:10 pm
“Were gays targeted at the RNC? No, but Blacks and Muslims were, steadily, relentlessly.”
————————–
Insufferable, reading comprehension is a must, I did not say Republican Party platform, I said RNC, republican national convention…
Either you did not watch the convention or your brain must not have understood what you eyes saw… Go rewatch it then come back to me. Talking about being misinformed!!!!
As for the platform, you mustn’t have read it, unlike me, which fits actually considering your tendency to speak on things you know little about…Go read it and show me exactly where the targeting is, outside of the mention of defense of traditional marriage that is…
As for not giving a shit about my opinions, yeah, keep lying to yourself… you are stuck on that rollercoaster of attacking said opinions for a while one, and you keep bringing them up even after I hope you have finally gotten your fix and moved on. If this is part of your healing process, then friend keep at it.
Finally, friend, you are arguing with me though you refuse it… you travel across time and blogs to misquote my long made statements, carry them across space out of context, take notes on them so you can regurgitate them coated with your bile, refuse to address me directly while talking about me… typical infatuation I see, boy, I am getting flattered from all that attention 🙂
‘
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July 20, 2016 at 12:15 pm
Obama deported more people than Bush.
Hillary and Obama have bombed more people than Bush.
Obama/Hillary have/are bombing Syria, Yemen, Pakistan and took out Libya.
Repeaing ACA is a valid argument, Bernie has suggested something close.
On one side we have actions, on the other we have promises…. hmm, just wonder who is more evil, the doer or the speaker???
1-0
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July 20, 2016 at 1:04 pm
WTF? One is just supposed to IGNORE ‘defense of traditional marriage”? What a fool.
Here is what the platform covers:
At their convention this week, Republicans are set to approve a particularly anti-LGBT platform. It calls for overturning marriage equality, banning same-sex parenting, restricting transgender people’s access to bathrooms, and ensuring parents can force harmful conversion therapy on their LGBT kids.
WTF? RNC is somehow a separate entity from Republican policy? Delusional.
It is maddening to respond with this idiot.
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July 20, 2016 at 1:34 pm
Sounds like po means Obama is the evil one with regard to the bombing. Obama is the Commander in Chief. Not Hillary. Obama is in control of deportations, not Hillary. And why compare Bush v Obama when discussing Hillary’s ‘evilness’? But as long as you brought it up, I’d like to see some stats on Obama bombing more people than Bush. While you’re at it, show me the stats on the numbers of people killed by Bush in Middle East wars versus Obama.
Of course it is a stupid exercise since most sane people know Bush is responsible for the deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. Libya is on Obama. Pakistan drones are on Obama. Yemen? Just how many have been killed by Obama drones in Yemen? Saudis are the killers in Yemen.
BTW, I don’t condemn Obama for Libya. I remember Gaddifi was on his way to massacre an entire town which forced Obama’s decision. I’m not sorry for Bin Ladin’s death, either.
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July 20, 2016 at 1:42 pm
po: Well, we agree on several points: You are right, a black person cannot hide blackness like a gay can hide their sexual orientation; one of my gay friends has held several jobs without ever revealing she is gay (for about 20 years, she wore a cheap gold wedding ring and pretended she was married, to ward off suitors; but recently she actually did marry and retired that ring, and now wears a nicer ring).
You are also right that refusing to vote for Hillary is not a vote for Trump, only a vote for Trump can help Trump. Refusing to vote for Hillary is Hillary’s fault; and I reject the underlying notion of Savage that we simply must pick the Democrat every time no matter how much we hate the Democrat and no matter how many crimes we think they have committed. By his logic the Democrat could be a drug addict, a child molester, a racist killer cop, whatever, all that matters to him is the label: Democratic Nominee. That’s stupid. People should vote their conscience, and mine says Hillary’s a crook, Trump is a crook, and I don’t know much about Jill Stein but I haven’t heard any evidence that she is a crook.
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July 20, 2016 at 1:54 pm
Discrimination of homosexuals is a civil rights violation. Such discrimination should not be dismissed. Pointing out that people can live in the closet and life ‘goes on’ is a pretty damn sad commentary.
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July 20, 2016 at 2:39 pm
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/20/donald-trump-s-thugs-execute-hillary-clinton-for-treason.html “CLEVELAND — It is not enough to simply beat Hillary Clinton, an adviser to Donald Trump’s campaign said. She must be killed.
The theme of the last two nights has been less ‘Make America Safe Again’ or ‘Make America Work Again’ and more ‘Lock Her Up.’ But some of Trump’s most diehard supporters want to go further — they want her to be executed.” Guess if Trump comes to power we know what might happen to Hillary. It happened in Germany.
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July 20, 2016 at 3:20 pm
IP says:
“Here is what the platform covers:
At their convention this week, Republicans are set to approve a particularly anti-LGBT platform. It calls for overturning marriage equality, banning same-sex parenting, restricting transgender people’s access to bathrooms, and ensuring parents can force harmful conversion therapy on their LGBT kids.”
Insufferable, glad to see we are now officially engaged in debate, you are talking to me directly…I think.
Thank you for stating yourself how much of an idiot you are…intellectually dishonest too…rather than quoting the Republican convention platform itself, you quote somebody else’s erroneous write up about it!!!!!!
You are dismissing me for supposedly not reading it when you, yourself haven’t read it. Go read the platform content and show me exactly where it states what your friend says it does. What an idiot!!!!
As for Obama, Bush, Hillary and Trump, please read with a little less muscle. That whole part of my post shows what Hillary and her allies, what democrats themselves did compared to someone like Bush whom we deem a warmongerer. Additionally, it flew over your head the obvious showing that unlike Trump’s promising things, Hillary and co have actually done the same things that Trump is promising. That was to show the idiocy of fearing the threat when the actual action is ongoing.
As for Libya, it shows you get your “news” from the MSm…perhaps rather than dismissing my sources, you ought to pry open that rock of yours and learn more about the real world: the idea that Gaddafi was about to massacre a whole town has been widely debunked…only idiots and ignorant idiots and self-deluded idiots keep holding to that narrative. Hillary’s emails, via wikileaks show that it was one of many narratives they sold in order to convince Obama and the MSm to support the rebels who were advancing on Tripoli. That plus the grounding of the Libyan planes in order to enable the overthrow. Hence the ” we came, we saw, he died” cold blooded shriek that Hillary let out right on camera.
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July 20, 2016 at 3:29 pm
Insufferable, thank you proving exactly why I keep my newsources, teaches me something about the world your news sources don’t tell you…so you are always a step behind and reacting in slow motion. There is a real danger to that…imagine you voting for Hillary based on what you assume to be a credit for her, taking out Ghaddaffi when in fact it should be a demerit? One that will drag us and the world in the new Iraq?
You do know that ISIS has now taken swathes of Libya, and they are using it as a base to conduct terror attacks on Europe?
And you assume, I hope that Europe will react by bombing Syria, Iraq, libya and other countries, thereby reaffirming the circle of death that you (and me) will some day have to pay for?
So here you are acting so righteously out of complete ignorance and complete misunderstanding of the facts…so scary…all of it because you are too stubbornly ignorant to accept the outside of your comfort zone info I provide you with?
What a shame!
What a shame!
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July 20, 2016 at 3:30 pm
MM says:
By his logic the Democrat could be a drug addict, a child molester, a racist killer cop, whatever, all that matters to him is the label: Democratic Nominee. That’s stupid. People should vote their conscience, and mine says Hillary’s a crook, Trump is a crook, and I don’t know much about Jill Stein but I haven’t heard any evidence that she is a crook.
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Exactly!
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July 20, 2016 at 3:33 pm
The republican platform is the most-anti gayplatform they have ever had.
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July 20, 2016 at 6:09 pm
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-trump-campaign-is-now-wink-winking-calls-to-murder-clinton “But there’s a part of this story that’s been overshadowed by the shocking nature of what Al Baldasaro said. That’s the response from the Trump campaign. In response to Baldasaro’s attack, Trump Campaign spokeswoman Hope Hicks said: “We’re incredibly grateful for his support, but we don’t agree with his comments.”
I’m not sure why no one has referenced this. But this is the kind of statement one usually hears about a policy disagreement rather than a demand to murder the opposing party’s nominee.
Calls for violence or the killing of a political opponent usually spurs the other candidate to totally disavow the person in question. Frankly, it’s a pretty new thing for a prominent supporter of a prominent politician to call for killing opposing candidates at all. But the Trump campaign is still “incredibly grateful his support” even though “we don’t agree” that Clinton should be shot.
This too is not normal.
Maybe you didn’t notice her statement until now. I assure you Trump’s more rabid supporters have – or at least noticed the conspicuous lack of any clear denunciation.
I’m not sure I’ve seen a better example of the wink-wink attitude of the Trump campaign – here not just Trump’s impulsive retorts but the campaign apparatus itself – to things that used to get people totally written out of the world of legitimate political discourse. I’m working on a piece about how the biggest legacy of the Trump campaign – assuming he isn’t elected president – is the re-normalization of racism and anti-semitism in American political life. This is another part of the same story. We’ve already discussed the numerous ways Trump has embraced the stylings, policies and speech of a would-be autocrat. He’s now moving on to the kinds of banana republic politicking where the cost of political defeat is imprisonment or death or even a legitimate form of ‘activism’ in advance of the ballot.”
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July 22, 2016 at 9:17 am
http://www.vox.com/2016/7/21/12253638/republican-convention-trump-speech “Donald Trump is not a candidate the American people would turn to in normal times. He’s too inexperienced, too eccentric, too volatile, too risky. Voting Trump is burning down the house to collect the insurance money — you don’t do it unless things are really, really bad.
Here is Trump’s problem: Things are not really, really bad. In fact, things are doing much better than when President Obama came into office.
Unemployment is 4.9 percent nationally — a number Trump knows is far from a crisis, because it’s lower than the unemployment rate Mike Pence is presiding over in Indiana, and Trump keeps bragging about his running mate’s economic record. The deficit has gone down in recent years, and the stock market has gone up. The end of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars mean fewer Americans are dying abroad. A plurality approve of the job Obama is doing.
So Trump needs to convince voters that things are bad, even if they’re not. He needs to make Americans afraid again. And tonight, he tried.” And even if things were really really bad why would anyone think that the angry red faced Trump could fix them?
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